J’ai produit dans facebook un article en arabe dans lequel j’affirme que le Coran est écrit par un rabbin étourdi, décrivant l’état délabré de ce “brouillon”:
http://www.ahewar.org/debat/show.art.asp?aid=338220
Une discussion en anglais s’en est suivie avec un musulman
I produced an article in Arabic in facebook Arabic in which I said that the Quran is written by a rabbi dizzy, describing the dilapidated state of this “draft”
http://www.ahewar.org/debat/show.art.asp?
A discussion in English ensued with a Muslim
Hisham Hamdan Very biased and baseless article. The Quran is most likely manmade, but is not that ridiculously bad. I actually think it’s one of the greatest works of Arabic poetry.
Sami Aldeeb Hisham, I suppose you never read the Koran, as 99% of Muslims who just repeat it as parrots.
Hisham Hamdan Sami, While those baseless accusations about me might be persuasive to you personally, I’ve read the Qur’an four times, and I’m not Muslim, but an agnostic. You seem to have not really read it from your whole article which never substantiates any claim with any evidence or quotation but simply attacks for the purpose of attacking. The Qur’an contains impressive rhetorical devices. Although it is not very poetically deep and dependent on poetic imagery, it has a lot of alliteration, parallelisms and mainly is dependent on what we call “Saja3” in Arabic, and does so to the level of mastery of Saja3. For instance, Surat Al Kafirun is a Saja3 masterpiece.
Sami Aldeeb Dear Hisham, while you may find some verses good formulated, the Koran itself cannot be considered as a book. it is rather a disjointed draft. For your information, I translated the Koran into French, finishing an Italian and English translations and an Arabic edition of the Koran. You may download the Arabic edition freely. https://www.sami-aldeeb.com/articles/view.php?id=315. I have serious doubts about the fact that you read the Koran four times. You should probably say I repeted it as a parrot four times. This may be more accurate.
Hisham Hamdan @Sami, I have no idea, firstly, what logic you use to say that if the Qur’an is not a book, this means that the poetry it includes is meaningless and worthless. I never said it was a “book: to begin with, and so your response was ad hoc at best, I called it a “great work of Arabic poetry.” In addition to that, most of the books of Arabic poetry I have read are disjointed collections of poems. I doubt you would say that Rabindranath Tagore’s poems are not poetry, simply because his poems are not chronologically organized but just put one after the other. Or to name an Arabic poet, Khalil Roukoz, his poetry is not good poetry because there is no chronological structure that explains why the poems were aligned as they were.
Furthermore, why you would argue that a book must only be a text with a linear, chronological order. That is your definition of a book, which is not even found in dictionaries and encyclopedias. It goes without saying that many Japanese literature doesn’t follow a linear, chronological structure, but a circular and disjointed one that simply is there to circularly discuss an issue. The same can be said about the Qur’an, which seeks to establish the supremacy of God through difference passages that are not aligned in their time of revelation or chronological order, but are aligned to be. Would you call that philosophy movie “Examined Life” not a movie because it has a series of unrelated discussions with philosophers and academics bundled together even when they don’t strictly follow each other or go under any academic category?
Moreover, I mainly read the Qur’an with a critical eye, as I mostly read it to engage with debates with Muslims, namely to prove them wrong or question their beliefs. So I still can’t get why I”m a PARROT simply because I don’t share your rather dismissive outlook on the rhetorical devices used in the Qur’an. The Qur’anic surahs all contain a certain theme and exhaust alliteration and rhyme to carry out messages, which are often full of teachings and wisdom. Whether you agree with them or not, doesn’t matter, the Qur’anic poetry is impressive and intriguing. And both of us, who I guess, both want to properly debate Muslims, need to be more objective and less biased in our arguments. So why aren’t you?
Hisham Hamdan If anything, I believe Sami is a parrot of atheistic fundamentalism. As he has nothing logical to offer, but ad hoc responses that themselves reveal the ignorance of a translator as opposed to the knowledge of a critical thinker.
Sami Aldeeb Dear Hisham, I think you can distinguish between a book and a draft. When you prepare a thesis or any kind of book, you collect a lot of materials and try to put the informations in an ordered way. Before that, what you did cannot be considered a book, but just a draft. This is the case of the Koran which is just a collection of materials gathered in a chaotic manner, full of stylistic and linguistic mistakes, repetitions and incoherences. This is how I see the Koran after having translated it and edited it in Arabic…. and this is what I explained in my article in Arabic. For this reason, I say that the author of the Koran should be an idiot.
Hisham Hamdan I don’t see how your conclusion follows your premises. In the case of the Qur’an, the Qur’an was collected after Mohammad’s death. How is he to blame for how it was collected? Also, how is the fact that the Qur’an was chaotically collected, anything relevant to whether it contained great poetry or not? So if after Shakespeare died, people compiled a chaotic draft that included his great poetry, would you call him an idiot?
Moreover, you refer to stylistic and linguistic mistakes in the Qur’an, which I”m familiar with, but they’re not many, and they’re not enough to degrade a very large and comprehensive work of poetry. Not to mention that the repetitions are there for emphasis purposes. They’re not errors.
Sami Aldeeb I invite you to download my Arabic edition of the Koran, and you will see how it is chaotic and full of mistakes – more than 2500 mistakes. I mentioned them in the footnotes. https://www.sami-aldeeb.com/articles/view.php?id=315
Hisham Hamdan I’ve only read the Qur’an in Arabic, and I’m only familiar with a few mistakes I found, and some of which were pinpointed by Ali Dashti in his book, Twenty Three Years. 2500 is a very large number. i doubt it is true. But I have to check them out.
Sami Aldeeb Yes, please, check them out. Any remarks will help me correcting what I wrote.
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